tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post3287078658649997733..comments2023-10-23T12:09:24.592-07:00Comments on Timely-Atlas-Comics: Stan Lee (1922-2018) - The Timely YearsDoc V.http://www.blogger.com/profile/06815470072568462626noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-50835687341375377112022-06-05T18:00:08.699-07:002022-06-05T18:00:08.699-07:00I read this back in 2018 when new. Now with almost...I read this back in 2018 when new. Now with almost four years more research on my part coupled with wisdom of hindsight, just spent the past few hours re-absorbing much of this all over again. Most of it. I could ring out accolades. And I will soon, but for now, the most astounding 'new' thing I learned about (to jaded me) is Golfer's Anonymous #1 in 1961. There is much more to discuss, but am first gearing up for another scroll & read thru! Robert Beerbohmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02514676878677036242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-70014182489342107802021-02-21T18:49:45.939-08:002021-02-21T18:49:45.939-08:00Came to find out that the Howard James of Marvel i...Came to find out that the Howard James of Marvel is the African-American Howard James born in Brooklyn in 1921. He even listed Timely Comics as his employer on his World War II draft card.<br /><br />https://www.comics.org/creator/26962/<br /><br />- Danielvgmclassicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08484500675665707160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-22635962078178869882019-11-02T00:19:17.318-07:002019-11-02T00:19:17.318-07:00"The very last thing Joe drew was the splash ..."The very last thing Joe drew was the splash above to Two-Gun Kid #45, #T-67, cover date Dec/58 and published on September 2, 1958. Jack Davis would finish the rest of the story, John Severin would ultimately take over the book and later give way to Al Hartley."<br />Two-Gun went from Maneely to Davis to one issue by Hartley to Severin to Kirby to Ayers.<br />Have you identified what 1961 Ditko story started his working with Lee?<br />Was Rawhide Kid the first work Kirby did with Lee?mclegghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651175306713854473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-85124312669469410312019-03-01T22:28:55.044-08:002019-03-01T22:28:55.044-08:00Nice...............
ComicsNice...............<br /><a href="https://www.bropls.com/category/comics/" rel="nofollow">Comics</a>Deepika Patilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07355279795966700113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-69463277317346469462019-02-15T14:42:01.218-08:002019-02-15T14:42:01.218-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.mclegghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651175306713854473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-684553197964830332018-12-22T03:19:10.777-08:002018-12-22T03:19:10.777-08:00I think it should be remembered that Jack Kirby wa...I think it should be remembered that Jack Kirby wasn't averse to 'stealing' credit himself though, probably just as much as Stan is alleged to. For instance, he claimed for years that he had created Spider-Man, when in fact, it was the Joe Simon/Jack Oleck Spiderman/Silver Spider (which later became The Fly) that he had presented to Stan. (Which doesn't necessarily preclude Stan having asked Jack to come up with some sort of spider-themed character.) He also claimed that he'd designed the costume, whereas that was all Steve's idea, and he tended to downplay (when he wasn't ignoring altogether) Joe Simon's input into their collaborations. In all his DC text pages in his '70s DC mags, he doesn't mention Joe once when talking about his previous work. He also sided with Marvel when Joe was seeking to reclaim copyright of Captain America through the courts, and it's a safe bet that diminishing Joe's input into the character would've been part of that particular strategy. Then there's the infamous Groth interview, where he vehemently asserts that Stan neither created nor wrote anything in his life, and that he (Jack) created and wrote everything at Marvel and that anything that Stan was supposed to have written was actually done by 'someone in the office'.<br /><br />It's human nature for each individual creative collaborator to believe that what he brought to the table in any given undertaking is the most important factor in a project's success, so I'm not suggesting that Jack willfully lied - I think he truly believed his statements. Trouble is, his memory was every bit as bad as Stan's, which resulted in quite a few inconsistencies in his reminiscences. I also think that, in the main, that was what happened with Stan. He most likely believed that he was the driving force in his collaborations with Jack and Steve (and in one sense he arguably was), because had he been an outright credit thief (and aware of it), he'd never have willingly and often recounted his surprise at the appearance of the Silver Surfer in the Galactus Trilogy. At one time the Surfer was his favourite character, so if he was a credit thief, ol' Norrin would've been the perfect opportunity. Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-82353280096523904222018-12-21T16:14:30.269-08:002018-12-21T16:14:30.269-08:00Wow - amazing work!Wow - amazing work!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449493283398046939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-44032506132462909402018-12-19T08:32:05.531-08:002018-12-19T08:32:05.531-08:00Great job. I had to read it in sections it was so ...Great job. I had to read it in sections it was so long! A true definite back story to what Stan did pre-Marvel. Can't say I agree with The Kid on his conclusions though.libraryguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15643253055281694828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-47291504321077427572018-12-19T05:50:22.648-08:002018-12-19T05:50:22.648-08:00Thanks so much for this incredibly valuable resear...Thanks so much for this incredibly valuable research, Doc.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523155502231302630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-2032027691702392812018-12-18T20:09:08.649-08:002018-12-18T20:09:08.649-08:00What an incredible amount of research and writing ...What an incredible amount of research and writing went into producing this post! It's the equivalent of a great scholarly article. I'd be surprised if it doesn't become the definitive work on Stan's time at Timely/Atlas. I agree with the observations of "Kid" above about the importance of Stan's contribution in the 60s--"the magic ingredient." In the music world, we take for granted that certain particularly accomplished producers (Phil Spector, George Martin, Jimmy Miller, Sam Phillips, Rick Rubin and many others) can elevate the work of already great artists in ways that the artists themselves wouldn't have anticipated. I think this is what Stan did with Kirby and Ditko and others in the 60s. As many others have pointed out for decades now, however great Kirby and Ditko were, they were never quite as great as they were between the early and mid-60s in collaboration with Stan. I think Stan undoubtedly exaggerated and, at times, even stole credit, which is disgraceful, but those who want to over-correct for this by denying him *any* credit are misguided. Being the public face of a major American comics company, not to mention the industry itself, for so many decades is what earns Stan so much (deserved) scrutiny from comics historians. And that will probably continue for a good long time. This piece stand very tall in establishing the pre-1961 record. Thank you!SMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15422003936214682801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-41503581843575024872018-12-15T02:02:08.796-08:002018-12-15T02:02:08.796-08:00Doc, I've also bookmarked this and applaud and...Doc, I've also bookmarked this and applaud and respect your meticulous work here. Any other feeling about Stan aside, it's very impressive just how much he was accomplishing before the age of 20 in the comics field and your displaying his body of work from that period where he was 18-19 really reinforced that for me. Wow.Wm Byronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211622568047874639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-42381733906817436262018-12-13T18:48:57.299-08:002018-12-13T18:48:57.299-08:00Mike,
Thanks for providing an exhaustive look at ...Mike,<br /><br />Thanks for providing an exhaustive look at Stan Lee's Pre-hero career. It does point to several tropes that continued from day one into the Marvel era, including his interest in heroes meeting (the early text pieces) his inclination towards humor, and, most importantly, pairing with top talent. One thing I'd point out in regard to Strange Worlds # 1. While Kirby may have indeed been the impetus to try such a title out, Goodman was always aware of the competition and what was selling, since he often copied trends. It makes sense that Goodman took notice of National's Sci-fi oriented comics that had been selling in that period, specifically Mystery in Space, Strange Adventures and Tales of the Unexpected, along with similar titles such as ACG's Forbidden Worlds and Adventures into the Unknown. They had been selling well for some time, plus he would have taken notice of kids swarming to sci-fi and horror related movies, of which there were plenty in 1957-58, look here for a listing: http://classicscifi.blogspot.com/2008/11/1957.html <br /><br />I suspect this confluence of events pushed Goodman into the "dreaded" sci-fi arena, although it soon morphed into mostly monster-oriented titles which became his bread and butter for a while. Nick Caputohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05096100224095280865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-75736460779528607782018-12-11T13:05:44.788-08:002018-12-11T13:05:44.788-08:00This is extraordinary historiographical detective ...This is extraordinary historiographical detective work, and so, so valuable. Thank you.<br /><br />I confess, in the wake of Stan Lee's passing, I have been revisiting my account of the (re)creation of Marvel Comics in the 1960s, in HAND OF FIRE, and finding many passages that I myself would take issue with, passages that appear speculative or too generous in attributing creative leadership to Lee. Just now, after rereading parts of your post, I've reread several pages of my own, and found them, well, unsatisfying. What you've laid out in terms of actual production history, with ample documentary evidence, suggests a rather different view of Lee than even the fairly skeptical one in my book. Man, I would love to revisit those passages with the benefit of hindsight and of your own deep detective work. Thank you.Charles Hatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00420624399042669001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-31491267502047975612018-12-10T06:26:24.720-08:002018-12-10T06:26:24.720-08:00I bought FF1 off the spinrack and was a Merry Marv...I bought FF1 off the spinrack and was a Merry Marvel Marcher, but your article was a revelation!!! Great work. Also, I never knew that Flo Steinberg was Betty Brant; I always had a crush on Betty.Kerry Lawlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108503736788717564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-5199814858153316242018-12-09T21:50:01.053-08:002018-12-09T21:50:01.053-08:00This is an incredible post, so much so that I'...This is an incredible post, so much so that I've bookmarked it. I realize it's focus is on Stan's output, but I'd also like your thoughts on Yellow Claw and Linda Carter, Night Nurse. I have a different theory on the starting impulse for what would become the FF. I don't think Kirby ever suggested anything to Goodman after Strange Worlds, which probably was Kirby's suggestion, as you point out.mclegghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651175306713854473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-856564895707465332018-12-09T06:51:03.158-08:002018-12-09T06:51:03.158-08:00Fascinating article. I certainly agree that Stan c...Fascinating article. I certainly agree that Stan created the entity known as Marvel Comics. I've looked at Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art and stories produced without Stan, from before and after their time at Marvel, and although they look great and have some great ideas, I just never found them to be as interesting or as entertaining as the stories they produced with Stan. Sure, they were competent and professional stories, but lacked that extra something that Marvel stories of the '60s had. So, even if we accept, merely for the purpose of discussion, the notion that Jack and Steve did all their own plotting and even originated the characters, without Stan's input, it's doubtful that their stories would have garnered the attention and acclaim - to say nothing of longevity - that Stan's involvement ensured. When we look at what Jack and Steve did by themselves and compare it to what they did with Stan, I think the only conclusion which can be drawn is that it was Stan's input that made the difference. It had a disproportionate effect on the finished result, which is usually the way with 'secret ingredients' (though Stan was certainly no secret, so let's say 'magic') that improve anything, whether it be soft drink, cakes, cookies - or comics. There's a lot to be said for 'snappy patter' methinks.<br /><br />You've certainly put a lot of hard work into your post - well done. Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-58919903808577697942018-12-09T06:16:32.635-08:002018-12-09T06:16:32.635-08:00You could be right, Ger. I'll change the entry...You could be right, Ger. I'll change the entry to suggest what you've said.Doc V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06815470072568462626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-70050167574988619392018-12-09T02:34:27.997-08:002018-12-09T02:34:27.997-08:00More info about Snafu in my book Behaving Madly, b...More info about Snafu in my book Behaving Madly, by the way. It seems Stan wrote all of that (except the stories Howie Post did on his own). In Behaving Badly I come to another conclusion than you regarding Bunk. I think it was not produced by the same time, but rather a 'we can do that too' effort by the magazine division, using some of the same artists. I see no indication that Stan was involved.Ger Apeldoornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633862833036214748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7355407830694029222.post-69886369691027594702018-12-09T02:30:45.850-08:002018-12-09T02:30:45.850-08:00Great post. Still have to read it all, but I am gl...Great post. Still have to read it all, but I am glad you included all of the romance, western and crime stories. The horror list is nice too. I did something similar, not as a complete list but as a work in progress. I reposted it November 12th. I have included story notes of everyone and through the years was able to include more examples, so that may be nice to have a look at. I have also included some of the non-signed Stan Lee written books I came across. All tentative attributions, done by combining writing style, spelling habits and most importantly jon numbers (Stan wrote in bunches at home, so any story he did will always have other stories at ajoining job numbers. I found that there are very few unsigned stories in the early fifties and more (mostly westerns) in the post-code years. You are much more organized than I am, so many of my post-code attributions are in speerate posts on my blog. Maybe we should get together sometime to discuss all those attributions as soon as I find the time to make a list.<br />Ger Apeldoornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633862833036214748noreply@blogger.com